Several months ago on NPR I was listening to a conversation about immigration and health care. One woman said something to the effect of, " I think it is a joke that people who aren't even citizens of this country can get on Medicaid. I don't want any of my tax dollars going towards those people."
I've been stewing over this comment for several weeks and seeing as yesterday was Human Rights Day here in the US I decided that it was a good time to put words to my thoughts.
First of all this woman's comment made me really angry. I realize that there are people, citizens and non-citizens, who take advantage of the welfare system but I think that majority of the people who are using the resources really need them. In my opinion things like education, decent housing, food, and adequate health care are basic human rights that every person, regardless of citizenship status, nationality, language or ability is entitled to have. I believe it is our responsibility as fellow human beings, and children of God, to make sure that others have the same opportunities that we do and aren't denied basic human rights because of poverty or nationality.
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says:
- Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
- (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
I think I feel so strongly about this because not only am I personally uninsured right now because we can't afford health insurance for me (the option my husband gets through his school would cost more than our house payment a month and a private plan with the most lousy coverage...10,000+ deductible... would cost me $150 a month) but also because I've had someone very near and dear to me hit rock bottom and almost become homeless. She needed mental health care desperately and as I struggled to find some way to help her I realized that even though we have lots of government programs they have holes in them and there are many people who become homeless or poverty stricken because they fall through the gaps in our program coverage. I realized that for those who are at "rock bottom" it really takes some sort of miracle to help them get back on their feet because our programs don't do nearly enough. Luckily, my loved one got a miracle and after going through all that with her I now have NO problem paying taxes that support programs like food stamps, subsidized housing, medicaid and WIC because I know that there are people who really really need them.
I get a little discouraged when health care legislation gets "hung up" because people start throwing the word "socialized" around as a scare tactic. Personally I would have no problem with a "socialized medical" system because I think that it would ensure that all people would have some sort of access to medical care. We have a socialized education system and Americans don't really seem to mind that. True, our public education isn't always the best but I think that most Americans would agree that it is better to have some sort of universal education system in place than none at all. Any sort of education gives people a chance at a better life and develops them as people, and the rich will always be able to afford something better if they aren't satisfied with the public option.
Imagine what the US would be like today if people were only educated if they could pay for it. What sort of electorate would we have? How many more social problems would we have? How much bigger the gap between the rich and the poor would be? It is kind of a scary picture. Americans have already accepted the fact that education is a basic human right and can see that our country is better because all people are able to receive an education. When are we going to realize that health care is a basic human right and our country would be better if all people were able to receive health care, not just those that can afford it?
This is a topic that really hits a nerve in my spirit and I don't think that as Americans we can consider ourselves a "civilized" or "Christian" nation when we don't take care of our sick, our poor, and our disabled. So this Human Rights Day I said a little prayer that sometime in the very near future that somehow our government and people will find a way to fill in all the gaps and wake up to our responsibility as human beings to provide our brothers and sisters with the basic human rights they deserve.
Also if anyone knows of a good way for me to find affordable health insurance, that doesn't involve me getting pregnant so I can qualify for Medicaid, please let me know!
19 comments:
I can tell that your heart reaches out to your fellow man and that is a VERY good thing. We do need more people who are caring in this world. But I do not believe that what you view is the answer to the problems we face right now. Personally, I think they would do more harm than good. I think there may be another answer that is a better choice out there. And I totally feel for you. My heart breaks every time I see someone who is down on their luck, people who are struggling, the homeless, and so forth. I am constantly crying and asking Austin if we can give more. This economy is horrible. I would say about half of our friends (if not more) have filed foreclosure on their homes. But even in saying that and feeling the way I do- when I see all those people who are down on their luck- and as sad as I am- I also know that somewhere in their lives they made a choice that led them to that point. And maybe they DIDN'T make a choice that led them there, but maybe a choice might have been made FOR them that led them there. Which is horrible. But that is also is why I am so so so grateful for places like the DI who offer jobs to people in need and how McD’s is always seems to be hiring. And I am grateful that the church offers many services to help people (not only members but everyone) find jobs/careers and to give them chances to make their future better. And I am so saddened when I see people who are not citizens in this country with little babies and kids. I actually see some every day on my way home, selling fruit on the corner. Of which I try and help them out and buy some. However as mean as it might sound- I also do believe if they want to obtain the benefits of America, they need and should go through the process of becoming US citizens. It can be hard and it will be work and a lot of effort. However I also strongly believe in how the many scriptures and many doctrines tell us we need to be self reliant and obey the government laws. I believe Government laws also state how it is illegal to live here and not be a citizen. Which is why they offer a program to help you become citizens. As much as I would love to help everyone I see- I know I can’t. And as nice as it would be to have free health insurance - there is a huge con list that would come with it. The health plan they are showing us is NOT as good as the one we have now. In other countries people die waiting for surgery, simple doctor help or for other medical related issues.
They have waiting lists far to long for simple surgeries. The same surgeries that if one of our doctors was meeting with them here in America- would rush them immediately and help them with surgery or whatever they need. People fly from other countries to have American doctors help them. YES they pay the price of the costs and everything. But it just proves how much better our current health plan is. I also understand how much is sucks to have to pay an arm and a leg for health insurance. My husband is a diabetic. We were paying $750 a month- he luckily got a job that has a benefit of paying for half of the cost of his insurance. So that was a huge blessing. We do not have a lot of money at all, but out of the things we would pay for Tithing always came first, then my husbands insurance and then everything else. All the other bills. I want to make sure he is taken care of. We sold my car to have extra money to help. And that was a huge struggle and sacrifice. But We cut expenses. We don’t have TV and we don’t have a lot of luxuries. There is the chance that we would be accepted for government help. HOWEVER I won’t go and ask, because we are doing everything we possibly can to be self reliant. I strongly believe that government programs are for those who TRULY have done everything they can to cut costs and everything they can do in their personal power (a second job or whatever) and yet they still need help. I do not believe government help should ever be a first option. I work very hard and my husband works very hard. We willing allow them to take the money out of our pay checks to be added to all those programs. But because I work hard- so if someday I ever am in the situation where I need those benefits - I believe people who are accepting those benefits should make sacrifices and work hard as well. That is my personal opinion. And I don’t want to hurt anyones feelings who may disagree with me. I know politics can always be somewhat confrontational and I honestly hope I didn't offend you in any way. You are to nice of a person for someone to purposefully offend. and I am sorry this is so long. I totally understand if you delete it.
Heather, I think you are so wise and such a caring woman. In MA they a health care plan where everyone has to have health care and you can get it no matter what your income is. It is on a sliding scale. Granted it has its problems but it shows that a change can happen and it can be positive.I agree with you that Health care is a human right, just like education, police,firemen,social security, etc. Where would we all be without these?
Hmmmm...interesting topic of conversation. I have my opinions, which I will keep to myself for the most part...but let me just say that as good as our government is, it is a broken government that encourages people to not be self reliant. I agree that people deserve a chance...and I'm not foreign and I was given that chance by birth...so I will let it be. Bless your kind heart, though, Heather.
Ashley Dawn,
Thanks for your comments and don't worry I'm not offended-- I am a very hard person to offend. I knew when I wrote this that it is controversial and was hoping people would share their thoughts. So thank you.
I think you brought up a good point about people having to make sacrifices and having to work hard for what they have. I really agree with this and have been thinking for some time that it would be nice if instead of always talking so much about "rights" we talked more about "responsibilities". Nothing in life is free and whenever we receive something we have a responsibility to repay or deserve what we've been given. I don't think that anyone should get a "free ride" and think they need to be held accountable for what they have BUT I also think that they deserve-- because they are human beings--- to have certain basic rights.
Also another thing to think about is that we already have "free" or "socialized" health care for seniors-- Medicare. I would say that the majority of Americans end up using this program in their later years. It enables them to have some sort of dignity and health care when they are older. Before this program the burden of taking care of the elderly was on families and it wasn't getting done. Many seniors lived in abject poverty in their later years because their families were unable to take care of them or because they had died. It seems almost inhuman now to think about how older people use to live. It makes me ache inside when I see people make unreasonable sacrifices (like huge debt or going without necessary care) because of the inability to pay for insurance or health care. It just seems really wrong to me.
Yet I don't think that a health care system like they have in most European countries would work in the US-- we are too big and our health care system is already so different-- but I do think we need to have something MUCH different than we have now. It really is a mess and there are HUGE holes in it that make it impossible for some people to get the help they need. Personally I would be willing to pay more taxes if I knew that it was helping provide people with health care... even if they weren't citizens of this country.
Also, please don't think that I am trying to get a free ride off the government-- I'm not. We are poor graduate students and at this point in our lives, when my husband doesn't have a regular job and I stay home-- most of the health insurance we can find is beyond our income. It is just really frustrating and I needed to rant a little about it.
Oh and Jeri Dawn,
I'd love to hear your opinions on this topic sometime. Maybe we'll have to find sometime to talk about it ;)
Nice conversation going on here! I always love a good debate. Without mentioning health care, I want to add a link to a document written by Ezra Taft Benson.
http://www.zionsbest.com/proper_role.html
Also, rights ensured by The Constitution and Bill of Rights do not infringe on the rights or anyone else.
Jason McKellar
I miss you Heather. I feel like I do not have the eloquence you show in your writing to discuss this topic in an educated and appropriate way. I shall simply say this: My basic rights, your basic rights, and the immigrant's (whether legal or not) basic rights are unchanged regardless of nationality, sex, religion, financial status, race or family. I wish to care for them because I wish for them to care for me. They are my neighbor and we have been commanded to "love they neighbor as thyself". If we truly are a christian nation, a light unto the world, the city on a hill- should we not uphold this great commandment?
Also, what are you planting in your garden this year?! how are the chickens? I LOVE reading about them- and you, and your darling children, and your hilarious hubby! keep it up!
Jamck,
Thank you so much for that link to Ezra Taft's Benson's position-- it was really really interesting. I think that he makes really valid points. I especially was intrigued by this thought
"... the proper function of government is limited only to those spheres of activity within which the individual citizen has the right to act. By deriving its just powers from the governed, government becomes primarily a mechanism for defense against bodily harm, theft and involuntary servitude. It cannot claim the power to redistribute the wealth or force reluctant citizens to perform acts of charity against their will. Government is created by man. No mted by man. No man possesses such power to delegate. The creature cannot exceed the creator."
I'd never quite thought of taxes as FORCING people to be charitable or to follow a certain course of action. I like what he says about local governments taking more of a role in providing social things but my question is then what do you do if the local government won't take care of its people? What if the State or the City won't do it? What do you do then? What happens when people are using force or coercion to deny people rights like equal access to health care, education or housing? When people are bullied by corporations or organization because of their inability to pay? Isn't that a time that might justify a little bit of "force" on the federal government's part?
But wow I'd really never thought about that when we make the federal government bigger we loose more freedoms on a local basis to make decisions that are right for our community. Hmmm... I wonder if a State Health care system would be effective?
That article gives me a lot to think about. But I still think that we need to figure out some sort of solution that will work!
Hey Heather! I haven't talked to you in a long time! I think you bring up a lot of really great points. When I was in nursing school we talked about what to do with a broken health care system a lot. Obviously nobody had a perfect answer, it is a very complex problem. I just thought I throw in a few points to also think about.
Money, unfortuntely, is always a major concern. With the idea that health care will be paid for by taxes of the 'rich' I think is a flawed system. I have members in my family who would have their taxes raised to over 60%. If that happens they can no longer afford to make the personal charitble donations they always make. Many of the 'rich' are looked to to provide for elderly and ill parents or family members and friends who are down and out (as is the case in my family), with taxes that high they cannot afford to do so. Many many wealthy people choose to be very generous but if the government decides for them where to put their money it takes away from the charitable causes that they choose.
Also, another interesting point, my husband's dad is an orthopedic surgeon. Because of the reimbursement plan from medicare he receives no profit for the hudreds of surgeries he performs on medicare patients. In fact, many times those surgeries leave him in dept. If it were not for private insurance companies his practice would literally go out of business. The life of a doctor is incredibly difficult, if it were not for decent compensation it would not be a profession that many people would last long in, decreasing the number of doctors significantly and there is already a doctor shortage. As my father in law put it, it is not worth sacrificing so much time with his family if he was not compensated.
Like I said I don't know how to fix such a complex problem. I can just do what I can to help, like volunteer and be active in the community. I think you have a great heart!
I'm not going to comment on the topic of most of this because... I really haven't decided my opinion.
But... about Health Insurance... does your husband work? or just in school? Logan and I just applied for the Basic Medicaid plan because he isn't working and our only income is student loans so we qualify (and you have to have kids--which you do). Anyway, just a thought.
Coming from the UK where we not only have a state medical system, but a state welfare system, I'd caution you to be very careful.
It seems great on paper. It really does. Everyone gets care, everyone is looked after, but that is not the way it works is it? Look at us as an example. There are people here who don't get proper medical or even welfare care.
We have some families where 3 generations have not worked. Ever. Why would they -- the state provides everything they need without them needing to lift a finger. Then there are people like us who work hard, live within our means to the exclusion of luxuries that these non-workers refer to as rights (yearly holiday abroad, TV license, new clothes, DVDs, trips to the cinema, takeaways, etc.) AND 25% of my husbands paycheque is swiped before we even see it. Does *that* seem fair?
I completely understand that there are people out there who NEED some form of charity when they are down on their luck. I do. I don't believe that a state run system is the answer. Especially one that takes from citizens to benefit other citizens. For a start it will only lead them to have more power over your lives.
Oh, I also think doctors get paid WAY WAY too much, and that is another BIG problem.
I hope you figure something out dude xxx
Heather,
Regarding your questions. If local governments did take care of people, but yours doesn't, people will move to where care is provided. I know your story is about someone who wasn't receiving care, but the reason we have more immigrants (legal or not) is because there is better care here (US), regardless of immigration status. The same thing would happen on a local level. If Ogden cared for its elderly (through taxation) and Logan did not, in short time Ogden would be full of senior citizens. Eventually the program wouldn't be properly funded and would fail, unless they had stipulations, such as you must have lived in Ogden and paid taxes to Ogden for X number of years in order to receive care...
As far as people being denied rights (I question the use of this word - it may be part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but either God gives us rights - inalienable - or our government gives us rights. The United Nations hardly protects anyone's 'rights' they profess to, nor have we chosen them to care for our rights) to health care, education, and housing (as long as it's not discrimination for a protected class), inability to pay is a huge factor. If one cannot afford these things, how can one expect that another can (or even should) afford these things for them? The fact is they shouldn't expect it. Out of the goodness of our hearts, we should provide it, but no one should expect it. Force was and is the 'evil' answer to the question. It will never be the best answer.
As Funkyhan pointed out, some will take advantage of the system and have a 3 generation free riding Holiday, while the rest of us work.
I had an interesting conversation with my Father-in-Law the other day. He wondered how 1/3 the host of heaven could choose the other plan. Did they really think that HF would buckle to them and change his plan? Or did they just think that they wouldn't make it under His plan and the only chance they would have is if they were forced - didn't have a choice - because they couldn't make it on their on merit (with grace of God and the atonement). I understand that some people have hard times (very hard indeed), but government is not the answer. Start with immediate family, then relatives, then friends, then neighbors, then local, state, and federal government - unfortunately, as you mention, local and state don't do so much. since the faceless nameless federal government has gotten so big. Real solutions for real problems of real people don't come from chambers of governments for the millions.
Wow. Thanks everyone. This has been a really interesting conversation and has given me a lot to think about.
Funkyhan thanks for your insights. I was hoping you or one of my other International readers might say something about how health care works in their country. I appreciate your insights. I agree, I think doctors get paid WAY too much and that health care is way too expensive. But that goes back to how ridiculously expensive and competitive medical schools are and how high malpractice is.
There is something so wrong with how our system is run and I really appreciated everyone's comments. It makes a lot of sense that if it was more locally run, out of charity and responsibility, rather out of coercion that it would be better. How to fix it then? I don't really know. I think it would help if people had more understanding of what was happening to their bodies, what they were taking into them, and how much things cost. We really don't have a FREE market AT ALL when it comes to health care. I bet if there was more transparency, education and freedom to choose health insurance it might make a difference in the cost.
Anyway, thanks all for your really insightful ideas. Now lets find a solution!
I agree with Heather. I have heard a lot of 'the government is broken', 'government is not the answer' etc. So I want to ask...what is the answer? What isn't broken? It's easy to smash the solutions that politicians, policy makers, and experts have come up with. I would like to hear solution. But first I want to dispel some misconceptions that are mixed in with the health care debate.
1. No one is going to have their taxes raised to 60% of their income or even 60% of what they are paying now. Even in countries that have universal health care (completely provided by the state including UK, Canada, and France) tax at about a 38-40% of total income. If you make over a million dollars currently in the United States you are taxed around 32% on your federal income tax. It isn't even conceivable that they would raise it to 60% in any country, on any world in this universe.
2. We need to get 'socialized' out of our heads. The federal health care bill's main tenants mandate health insurance, expand coverage for those who cannot afford insurance/give tax credits, and rejects current insurance practices like rejecting applicants on preexisting conditions, etc. This is not a national health care system like we see in the UK, France, Canada, or Cuba. It doesn't even resemble those systems. Grouping this reform with those is like calling apples oranges because they are both fruit.
3. We are already paying for everyone's health care, why don't we do it in a smarter way. I will talk about Idaho (where I live) because I am most familiar with their health care structure. Idaho spent $1,096,537,275 on Medicaid and $1,224,164,084 on Medicare in 2004. On top of those figures Idaho spends close to a billion dollars on other medical services, including $40 million in catastrophic accident assistance (for those who can't pay their health care bills/don't have adequate insurance but don't qualify for Medicaid). Federal and state money that is used for health care makes up close to $3 billion annually in spending in Idaho. For those who do not know, Idaho is one of the smallest states in the nation with a population of 1.5 million.I also haven't even addressed how high insurance premiums and deductibles are because hospitals have to treat the uninsured regardless of whether they can pay or not. Having so many uninsured Americans is costing as much if not more than most of the proposed solutions. This issue has hit the national political stage because it has hit a point that a solution costs less than what we are wasting now.
4. I cannot buy this argument on self-reliance that so many people are espousing. I am all about being self-reliant, but let's not kid ourselves. Have you ever gone to a public school? Have you ever attended a university? (all are subsidized in some way by the government)Have you ever gone to a district health center? Did you take the $8,000 tax credit for first time home buyers? Have you ever taken a scholarship or a PELL grant? We all use the government programs and system more than we realize. Are you going to reject Social Security checks when you get older? Are you going to pay for your own insurance instead of using Medicare when you become eligible and your employer no longer pays for it? I value self-reliance but if you are eligible for a government program it is because you need it. Your quality of life shouldn't be destroyed (by working two jobs etc.)because you have a medical condition like diabetes. To maintain your quality of life the government assists people with those kinds of special circumstances. Our generation has such a stigma against government programs saying or insinuating that they are for the freeloader, lazy people who just want to take advantage of everyone. I hope that we can overcome that stigma and find SOLUTIONS instead of just being the critic.
I'm not saying that the health care bills in the Senate and House are the answer. I have some issues with them much like everyone else. But let's stop kidding ourselves that our system is 'the best in the world' and that there isn't a problem. We can criticize all we want but what American politics really needs are people that will find solutions that work for the people instead of killing the ideas of others.
Thanks for starting such a great conversation Heather.
Hey! I just wanted to clarify my comment for Drew, The break down of taxes for the person I was talking about is currently 44% fed tax and 10% state tax which comes to about 54% income tax (which is currently being paid). With the proposed health care bill an additional 3-4% tax would probably be included leaving the grand total to be 57-58% (almost 60%). here is a link to the wall street journal article that breaks it all down: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124753106668435899.html
I will note that there will likely be many changes to the final financing plan during the legislation process.
Also, here is the break down for other countries average income tax rates (note these are average so some individuals pay much more). Countries like Germany and France already have average tax rates around 55%, which means that it is plausible that some pay around 70-80%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg
I agree that WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc. are all great programs. Unfortunately there are SOOO many people out there who feel entitled to things and take advantage of the rest of us who actually try to be self reliant. I think you assume too much that people are as good as you are, that everyone is honest and only asks for help when they really need it. If that were the case, we wouldn't be in the big mess we're in now. Stupid, selfish, greedy people make me so mad.
Heather, Glad my comment was useful... I paused before posting...
The world is so messed up right now, I'm not sure there IS any solution in the convolution of systems and institutions in place.
If we could take everything back to basics... maybe we could figure it all out.
(funky)Han x (who is feeling highly pessimistic today)
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